The problems

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Postby RowanLae » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:31 am

pwitte wrote:...
Is the social club, PISS, a violation of the current By-laws?....


Okay, that's it... Obviously I'm just too new(3yrs), but what is PISS?!?!?!
(and if somebody tries to tell me it's a slang term for urine, I'll throw my chai at them :x ) :P

Ro
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Postby Redheadedwitchywoman » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:06 am

Rowan said: Okay, that's it... Obviously I'm just too new(3yrs), but what is PISS?!?!?!


Okay here's the scoop. PISS stands for Pagan Intellectual Snob Society. It is a JOKE folks!!!! I attempted to have a PNO on the Southern end of Denver several years back. I was informed by the PNO of Denver that I could not use the name because it was sanctioned or some such nonsense. So in an attempt to be funny PISS was born.

Now here's what goes on with PISS. Some friends get together for dinner, a movie, to go to someplace like the Art Musuem together. Sometimes we will invite other friends to accompany us. There are no magical workings going on at all. Just some folks having fun. Dinner topics are the usual topics of any Mundane group of people, what books we read, what movie we just saw, how work is going, who's going where on vacation. Regular topics.


Now if this is in going against the "spirit" of the Dragonfest Bylaws as Pat Witte suggests then I don't see how. If this is the case, any group of friends that get together for any reason is doing the same thing. Heck Pat and Rob came for dinner one evening. They could for all intents and purposes be considered members of the dangerous Social Group PISS. Did she disclose this to the general public when she was running for the Board? No because at the time she didn't see it as an issue or being against "the spirit of the Bylaws" PISS is a JOKE folks that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. A JOKE!!!!!

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Postby rwitte42 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:42 am

Redheadedwitchywoman wrote:Now if this is in going against the "spirit" of the Dragonfest Bylaws as Pat Witte suggests then I don't see how. If this is the case, any group of friends that get together for any reason is doing the same thing. Heck Pat and Rob came for dinner one evening. They could for all intents and purposes be considered members of the dangerous Social Group PISS. Did she disclose this to the general public when she was running for the Board? No because at the time she didn't see it as an issue or being against "the spirit of the Bylaws" PISS is a JOKE folks that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. A JOKE!!!!!


I think I can clarify Pat's position without raising too much of a ruckus.

First, Pat was not actively participating in PISS at the time she ran for the board, nor did she plan to actively participate in the future. Indeed, Pat and I joined the group for dinner one time. The concern she has raised would not apply to her serving on the board. And what is that concern, specifically?

Pat's interpretation of the spirit of this bylaw is that members of the board should be spread across the community, not be a cohesive group (magickal or social) ... to allow checks and balances, avoid the appearance of collusion, and limit the potential for "groupthink".

Pat and I both interpret this bylaw to be an attempt to prevent a single group with shared interests from hijacking Dragonfest. Nobody is suggesting that this is occuring, but rather raising a concern that we're moving in the direction of a "group" controlling DF rather than a diverse representation of the membership.
Rob
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Postby Greyhart » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:21 am

Hawk Shadow wrote:
Greyhart -- I have to defend the board on this one. We -- Staff -- called for volunteers very early in the year in one of the mailings. I also posted it on Colopagan, etc, since I was initially the CHAIR of said committee. I got very few responses, and the final team was very small. Then I resigned, and I don't know exactly what happened then. I did leave all of the formal recommendations with the committee, and made a preliminary report to the board.
So the call for volunteers was in fact published. I know. I wrote it.

Hawk Shadow


Ok, maybe I just didn't see it in the mailing. I most certainly would have volunteered had I seen it. I'm not on the Colopagan email list, but I am on dfdiscuss, which is one of the two lists set up by Dragonfest, for just such information to be put out.

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Postby Greyhart » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:36 am

gadfly wrote:
You make an excellent point. How did Dragonfest wind up with 5 middle-aged men as the representatives for a Pagan festival?


Let's see....they were VOTED in.
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Postby Guest » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:37 am

Greyhart wrote:
gadfly wrote:
You make an excellent point. How did Dragonfest wind up with 5 middle-aged men as the representatives for a Pagan festival?


Let's see....they were VOTED in.


Or Diebold machines were used to count the votes. :D
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I cannot quite believe this

Postby Guest » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:07 am

I just wasted far more of my time reading this thread than it was worth. The solution is simple: If you have a problem with the current board, the bylaws, etc... Then why not run for a position where you can make the difference that it appears you want. If enough other people feel that the concerns are valid, you will be voted in and can work on what changes you want. Whining about it in this thread isn't going to help very much. As you can tell by looking at the stats on the board there are not many people checking it out yet. Basically I am saying that if you have a problem with things you need to work to fix them not simply complain or fish for support here. As I said there is not yet enough of a group using this board to get a good idea of how many people share your concerns. Talk to the community, find out if the concerns are shared or even realized by them. If they are then drum up support for running for a position where you can make the difference you want. Personally having attended dragonfest several years running back awhile(93-96), then being gone for a bit but being back there last year(05). I've noticed that things seem to be running more smoothly than before, people are still enjoying themselves and I didn't notice any major problems(not to say that there weren't but to me at least none were visible). The idea is for pagans to enjoy themselves together not to develop more schisms, there will always be some but do we need to create more over the festival itself? Kind of contrary to the point of the festival, wouldn't you say? In closing I did vote for the current bylaws, overall the intent seemed clear even if the wording wasn't perfect. I don't have concerns over a group of middle aged men running the board, as noted they were voted in and in my opinion at least are doing an adequate job. I must ask also, wouldn't the fact the board are all pagans and attend the festival itself qualify in the same way as them all being members of PISS? please use common sense when criticizing such things, because they know one another and get along well enough to socialize together should disqualify some? Sorry getting along well would suggest to me that the board can actually get things done as opposed to having personality conflicts stall any and every topic raised. Anyhow work to make a change if that is what you want, as mentioned if enough people agree with you you will succeed, if they don't there may be a reason for that. I am remaining anonymous but will say that I am not staff nor board and intend to attend again this year as I enjoyed myself enough last year to make it worth my time, money and effort.
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Postby rwitte42 » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:05 pm

I can only assume your post only intended for those who posted to this thread who have not served on board or staff, have not run for board, do not attend the corporate meeting and have not drafted and posted proposed bylaw changes.

The rest of us have followed up our words worth actions. I believe our active participation has earned us the right to post openly about such issues.

If your post was indeed intended only for those who just gripe without taking action, and not a blanket statement to all, then I'll shut up and go back to my corner. If not, then an interesting, albeit heated, conversation is about to ensue, my dear anonymous poster.
Rob
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Postby LucyJoily » Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:41 am

Sublata causa, tollitur effectus
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Postby rwitte42 » Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:46 pm

> "The effect ceases when the cause is removed."

By which you mean what?
Rob
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