Proposed date change for 2012

[alshayed]

For those who were not at the corporate meeting, the board and ops (Tres) are either seriously considering or planning to move DF 2012 up a week next year into July. They have promised to post a date when the decision will be made so people can get their comments in before that. I don't know when that will be so I'd recommend getting them in early.

Apparently the reasoning is that school schedules are changing to start earlier - that is the case with Tres' children from what we heard. My children are starting a week LATER this year (Aug 24). Other schools in Colorado run year-round. Some have block schedules that are totally different. Cherry Creek schools has something like 3 totally different schedules depending on which school your children go to. Trying to change the dates to work for all schools in Colorado will probably be an impossible task and if that's the reasoning I'd like to see the people advocating for the change actually prepare a list of all the school districts showing the analysis of when the best date is.

My family (8 people) WILL NOT be able to come in July as we work the renaissance festival in Larkspur and it would overlap Dragonfest if the dates are moved up into July. We know of at least 10 people in our extended family and ~20 others who are in the same situation.

Other things to consider:
* For those people who teach/attend summer college classes the date change could prevent them from coming as well
* The new Denver County fair was the last week of July this year
* Burning Man conflicts with school - that doesn't stop people from taking their kids
* Beltania conflicts with school - that doesn't stop people from taking their kids
* Dragonfest has weekend passes - people can show up Friday night without issue

YOU NEED TO COMMENT EVEN IF YOU AGREE WITH WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE SAID.

Brandon

[alshayed]

Talking to Star it seems that what Tres said about his other kids school schedule may have just been an off hand comment since they aren't allowed to come to Drgonfest anyway.

So now I really don't understand why the school schedule issue came up at all.

Can the board explain exactly why Dragonfest is considering changing the schedule?

[ShyDavid]

The pluses and the minuses will probably cancel each other out. My reasoning is:

Starting Dragonfest 2012 on July 25th (Wednesday) means some people can attend who could not do so if Dragonfest 2012 started August 1st. But starting on July 25th. also means some people cannot attend who could have attended if Dragonfest 2012 started August 1st. It's a crap shoot. "Fixing" the date in one direction means "breaking" it in the other direction.

Is there a list of other festivals and gatherings that Dragonfest generally competes with?

Perhaps I am mistaken, but most people will only have the funds and the time to attend one or two such meets every year, so competition for attendees probably isn't the chief reason why Dragonfest attendance is down. A hell of a lot of people cannot afford to attend; shifting the start date of Dragonfest isn't going to help them.

One plus for starting Drgonfest 2012 on August First: it's the full moon.

[ashling]

no longer having school age children that need to be enrolled and attending school by a specified date does not affect my ability to attend fest at any planned time, however, I am very sympathetic to the concerns that all parents have in meeting the needs for the education of their children. Would the starting of fest at an earlier date defer some of the rain issues that occur august every year? If so this would be an added bonus to changing the dates we gather together as family and as a community of like minded individuals to grow and move forward in many positive directions in life. My though process is that if attending fest is important enough to each individual and enough planning time is allotted to schedule time off from work and any other obligations that drive ones desire and ability to participate that the actual start date is minor. full moon is mighty enticing as I absolutely love the full moon energy and the obvious opportunities for positive change in my life and the lives of my beloved dfest family! with the economy being in the state we are presently in, unfortunately, dealing with a date change will probably not positively or negatively affect those that are unable to attend for these reasons. basically we need to do what is best for community as a whole, for the rebirth and growth of our community. I am good with whatever decision is made so long as the best interests of all involved are considered so that we can continue with this wonderful opportunity to gather together to worship and learn from each other, and honor God and Goddess.
Brightest Blessings
stephanie cullick

[questaree]

Here is a link to the start dates of Colorado Schools. http://www.cde.state.co.us/edulibdir/directory_05.pdf
Only one school district lists a start date earlier than 8/8/11 this year: Falcon 49. All the other school districts have official start dates of 8/8/11 or later. There are a few year-round schools in both Douglas County and Cherry Creek, however it would be nigh impossible to plan around those families because there are always some students in school in that case. Charter schools do not have to follow the official district schedules and frequently vary widely from year to year. Again, planning around those schools would be almost impossible. About the only dates that all of the schools have in common are Federal holidays, but I haven't heard anyone suggesting that we move Dragonfest to, for example, Labor Day weekend. That said, I have school age children, and, if Dragonfest conflicted with their school (which it doesn't), I would send up part of my family on the wednesday and I would follow with my children on Friday afternoon. We do sell weekend passes. I, personally, know more people who would be affected negatively by a date change than positively. That said, I will also be calling charter schools and verifying start dates with districts within Colorado. I'll happily gather information from other states as well if people feel it necessary. I want everyone to have the most accurate information possible before this decision is made.

The point has been made that, with enough time and motivation, people can plan their work around Dragonfest. This is not true for those of us who work at shows. I own a booth at the Colorado Renaissance Festival. I am under contract to be there. If I cannot fulfill the contract for all 8 weekends, I am out of the show. I know several other people who attend Dragonfest who are in the same boat. Dragonfest moved to an earlier week in 2008 and it became much more difficult to attend for those of us closing up Faire, but we still manage. Please don't make it impossible. This same argument holds for the people who worked the new Denver County Fair this year. When you work shows or vend at shows, you can't change the show dates. You can't just rearrange your schedule and get someone to cover for you.

Another argument that has been brought up is weather. I've been looking at the rain data for Bailey on wunderground.com. I am working on collating the last ten years or so of data by week. So far I am not showing a statistically significant difference in rainfall between the last week of July and the first week of August. I'll certainly post my findings and research as soon as I finish.

If our main impetus is to increase attendance again, then I will volunteer my time to talk with people outside metaphysical shops and at events such as the Witches Ball. I will ask them if they've ever attended Dragonfest and why or why not. I will volunteer my time to write letters and poll past members to find out why they don't come anymore. I will present my findings, whether or not they agree with my opinion, because I do want what is best for my community.

This year was my 9th year in a row at Dragonfest. I look forward to seeing everyone. I love being on the mountain so much that I volunteered on staff for 7 of those years. I still volunteer for extra workshifts and try to help out wherever I am able because this is what I love. This is my community. I feel that it is wrong to push out existing members in favor of a nebulous group that hasn't been coming all this time. I can put a face on people who would no longer be able to attend. Can anyone put a face on new people who would definitely attend if the dates were moved?

Blessings,
Lori

[ShyDavid]

I have the data for weather station KCOBAILE3, which includes rain, but it starts in the middle of year 2006. A few minutes ago I ran the weekly average for precipitation and temperatures, spanning the entire data set (I wrote a Microsoft Access script); I would post the numbers, but I don't want to steal questaree's thunder by posting them before questaree does.

Some of the stations nearby do not include a rain metric.

Station MD3621 at Pine only goes back a year.

Station MBAWC2 (Buffalo) starts in year 2007 and it has precipitation (2.07 inches fell on Dragonfest this year).

What station goes back ten years?

When I first attended Dragonfest (23 years ago) the nights were much colder than now; the climate seems to be getting warmer.

[questaree]

We've been looking at wunderground.com, weather.com, and the national weather service to collate the data. You have to be careful though, because they keep wanting to give information for Centennial instead of Bailey. I'm learning to always double check the location before recording the information. I agree that the nights seem to be trending warmer just in the last 9 years, except for 2005 when I went and danced at Trance Circle in the snow.

[Eros_Feather]

Not everyone has or brings kids to this retreat. It is absolutely ridiculous to change dates to fit around school schedules. Don't make the rest of us adjust everything to make it easier for your children.

[ShyDavid]

[Maisry]

The date of Dragonfest doesn't much matter to us, being older, with grown children. I retired from a public school system, though, and know some of the inside story. I think that it very much matters to people who are either attending or working in public schools. Since there are likely, more people that are impacted by school schedules, I would think their needs are a priority over those who are not dealing with school schedules. Starting a school year is a mad rush and a big adjustment for teachers, students and parents. That first week of school is crucial to setting the tone for the months ahead. Each member of a class, and the support personel at home and at school need to be focused. How early education goes for a child impacts all their future years. So school needs to be high on the list of priorities for all of us, whether we have children currently in school or not.

As for weather... we used to need to take the average monsoon season into account, and it was more predictable than it is these last several years. Even when we had a fairly good chance of predicting the weather, we had a few real doozies drench Dragonfest including three inches of hail in a few minutes, and an entire Dragonfest where the sun shown for about an hour. I think weather might be a moot point. Every year for the last fifteen years, I've been camping in that area during the week before Dragonfest and saw no appreciable difference.

Unless there are statistics to show that the same number of people will be impacted by each choice, I think the best one is to go for a change to earlier by one week.
Beverly Aune

[ShyDavid]

[Alyx]

I would rather know just how many people this actually impacts. Are we talking a few hundred? a few dozen? or just a few families? No one has addressed that.

That said, for several years I was fortunate enough to be on staff and go up there early. I was there the last week of July and the first week of August, not a whole lot of difference, it still rained most afternoons, it still got freezing cold around 3 am, some years were worse than other years, some years there was no rain either week.

Personally, I prefer the first week of August, the only way the date change could impact my decision whether or not to attend is if many of my extended "family" were unable to attend because of it. I have many "family" that work a variety of festivals and faires, and a date change would mean they could not come.

So, time for a head count, and lets not forget to include merchants who would not be able to come due to a date change, or merchants who would come because of a date change.

[sagefire]

[angelthings]

My vote is to keep it on the current dates. There is no way that we can accomodate all school schedules. And no guarantee that we would increase attendance, I suspect that any additional attendees would be balanced out by those who could no longer attend because of conflicts.

There was a bit on the news earlier today that DFS is considering moving school start to later in the month because of excessive heat in the classrooms.

[Alyx]